Gary DeMar’s Heretical Eschatology: What Did I Know, and When Did I Know It?
pandrewsandlin.substack.com
I don’t intend to pursue further the controversy over Hyper-Pretersim (HP) brought to light by this letter signed by a number of Gary’s friends. But I feel obliged to respond to Gary’s statement that he hasn’t changed his views in about 25 years, and that I have continued to promote him during that time, and only lately have I objected to his views. Have I just over the last few months become more severe in my judgment on heresy? Was I tolerant of Gary’s false teaching for a quarter century and only in the last few weeks become publicly intolerant of it?
"First" and "Second" refer to BODILY comings . Heb. 9:26-28 designates this clearly. Otherwise, how is the judgment coming in 70AD "for salvation"?... Christians indeed escaped to Pella then, but this passage is referencing salvation FROM SIN effectuated for all who ever lived and all who will live and all who are alive when He comes again per Acts 1:11.
I have great respect for you and your heart for the Gospel, but this article is simply out of line. Dr. DeMar’s extensive podcast response to your 3 questions and to the assertions on the new anti-hyperpreterism website were meant to show that the issue is not as crystal clear as meets the eye, and it was a call for conversation.
Dr. DeMar systematically demonstrated that the signers of your letter and the signers of the HP website differ even amongst themselves on their interpretations of whether certain passages refer to AD 70 or to the final coming of Jesus at the end of history.
Dr. DeMar did not ever say he was in favor of hyperpreterism. He simply said he’d like to have an open dialogue with you and the other signers about these issues WITHOUT slinging the “heresy” word at each other. Your post here is precisely what Dr. DeMar was hoping to avoid.
Whatever happened to talking things out instead of resorting to public shaming? Just because he didn’t answer your letter in your timeframe doesn’t give you the right to sling the “H” word at him, especially with y’all being such longtime friends.
I’ve never met either of you, but I’ve heard both of you speak, so my heart is for both of you as fellow believers. I hope and pray you will consider taking this post down and instead scheduling time with Dr. DeMar to hammer this out face to face like Godly Christian men.
If Gary has held his current position for twenty-five years, why in the world can he not answer three simple, basic questions regarding biblical eschatology? Or perhaps more importantly, WHY won't he answer these questions?
This is so frustrating! His writings have been a catalyst for me and understanding eschatology, moving away from neive Dispensationalism. I'm thankful there are other brothers standing firm.
Reid: I and about a dozen friends and associates of Gary contacted him for several months in private (asking him the questions in the private letter ). Andrew Sandlin called him by phone; Gary called Doug Wilson (a signer) by phone. We could not get him to answer the three simple questions --- even though he has been saying he has held his current position for 25 years. He is a public figure who is publicly confusing people. We are continuing to pray for him. We are deeply saddened. We have not declared him a "heretic," though we say he is promoting some heretical teachings. Heretical doctrines are a slippery slope, however. When people deem themselves the salvation of historic Christian after 2000 years, trouble is brewing (see Joseph Smith; Charles Taze Russell). No, I don't have a digital version of BJF. I do have a DVD wherein I summarize the arguments: https://www.kennethgentry.com/before-jerusalem-fell-dvd-lecture/
I hear you my brother; I kind of enjoy study & discussion and used to be more polemic about it, but now I try to embrace the (Augustine?) quote: In essentials unity, in non-essentials liberty, and in all things charity. Btw you sent me scurrying for the dictionary with "adiaphora"... our fun & learning never ends (said Barney the dinosaur as I recall :-).
Also see the chapter in William G.T. Shedd's Dogmatic Theology (1886) which sets forth the biblical doctrine of <u>The Intermediate or Disembodied State</u>:
Even differing with John MacArthur's eschatology in general, one would do well to receive this concise, biblical treatment (reposted from a Grace-To-You Q&A): Do Christians receive glorified bodies immediately after they die?: https://cyberspacelinkdock.com/glorified-bodies.html
It is all stupid speculating, Jesus said Himself, He does not the day or hour of his return. So, ANYONE predicting the future that lies before us, is stupid and self defeating. I think it would be much more useful to finish and come down with a definite conclusion to this question, oh learned ones!!!
How many angels can dance on the head of a needle? And a corollary, how many can squeeze through the eye of the same needle at a time...... After all, people have been debating all that kind of nonsense for hundreds of years, might as well resolve the dancing angels question......
Besides, all of these stupid debates are the result of people wanting their
Wait -- if you admit that David Chilton was teaching Hyperpreterism, then what was Ken Talbot saying in 2011 when Talbot said his own "Realized Preterism" was like Chilton's preterism??? https://youtu.be/kfMnYMazvwg
Where were you when Talbot was allowing known hyperpreterist, Sam Frost develop student materials for his supposed "orthodox" seminary?
The only thing your post above tells the reader is that Andrew Sandlin doesn't do careful work. He doesn't look into someone's beliefs before he has them write chapters in his book. It tells the reader you don't know what you are talking about when it comes to these issues.
Thank you for this. While my eschatology has changed from DeMar’s he’s played a huge role in helping me see the importance of eschatology and I love (loved?) his writings. It’s heart breaking to see the reaction to his dead friends reaching out in that letter.
Very well written. I remember when Hibbard went HP around 95 or 96. He pushed Russell's heretical book "The Parousia". Now you can get a copy at AV with a foreword by Hibbard. Nothing has changed. What's worse is to see Gary squirming and acting like a total weasel. The man has helped so many over the years and now he is reducing himself to a morsel of bread before our eyes. So sad.
BTW third paragraph from the end... "severer" might not be a word. I think it is "severe", "more severe" and "most severe".
"First" and "Second" refer to BODILY comings . Heb. 9:26-28 designates this clearly. Otherwise, how is the judgment coming in 70AD "for salvation"?... Christians indeed escaped to Pella then, but this passage is referencing salvation FROM SIN effectuated for all who ever lived and all who will live and all who are alive when He comes again per Acts 1:11.
Appreciate this, especially as someone unfamiliar with the players involved and has been guilty of naïveté on more than one occasion.
Thank you, Andrew.
Dr. Sandlin,
I have great respect for you and your heart for the Gospel, but this article is simply out of line. Dr. DeMar’s extensive podcast response to your 3 questions and to the assertions on the new anti-hyperpreterism website were meant to show that the issue is not as crystal clear as meets the eye, and it was a call for conversation.
Dr. DeMar systematically demonstrated that the signers of your letter and the signers of the HP website differ even amongst themselves on their interpretations of whether certain passages refer to AD 70 or to the final coming of Jesus at the end of history.
Dr. DeMar did not ever say he was in favor of hyperpreterism. He simply said he’d like to have an open dialogue with you and the other signers about these issues WITHOUT slinging the “heresy” word at each other. Your post here is precisely what Dr. DeMar was hoping to avoid.
Whatever happened to talking things out instead of resorting to public shaming? Just because he didn’t answer your letter in your timeframe doesn’t give you the right to sling the “H” word at him, especially with y’all being such longtime friends.
I’ve never met either of you, but I’ve heard both of you speak, so my heart is for both of you as fellow believers. I hope and pray you will consider taking this post down and instead scheduling time with Dr. DeMar to hammer this out face to face like Godly Christian men.
In Christ,
Reid Swanson
PCA Layman
If Gary has held his current position for twenty-five years, why in the world can he not answer three simple, basic questions regarding biblical eschatology? Or perhaps more importantly, WHY won't he answer these questions?
This is so frustrating! His writings have been a catalyst for me and understanding eschatology, moving away from neive Dispensationalism. I'm thankful there are other brothers standing firm.
Reid: I and about a dozen friends and associates of Gary contacted him for several months in private (asking him the questions in the private letter ). Andrew Sandlin called him by phone; Gary called Doug Wilson (a signer) by phone. We could not get him to answer the three simple questions --- even though he has been saying he has held his current position for 25 years. He is a public figure who is publicly confusing people. We are continuing to pray for him. We are deeply saddened. We have not declared him a "heretic," though we say he is promoting some heretical teachings. Heretical doctrines are a slippery slope, however. When people deem themselves the salvation of historic Christian after 2000 years, trouble is brewing (see Joseph Smith; Charles Taze Russell). No, I don't have a digital version of BJF. I do have a DVD wherein I summarize the arguments: https://www.kennethgentry.com/before-jerusalem-fell-dvd-lecture/
I hear you my brother; I kind of enjoy study & discussion and used to be more polemic about it, but now I try to embrace the (Augustine?) quote: In essentials unity, in non-essentials liberty, and in all things charity. Btw you sent me scurrying for the dictionary with "adiaphora"... our fun & learning never ends (said Barney the dinosaur as I recall :-).
So if I believe I am going to get my resurrection body when I die that makes me a Heretic?
Also see the chapter in William G.T. Shedd's Dogmatic Theology (1886) which sets forth the biblical doctrine of <u>The Intermediate or Disembodied State</u>:
https://cyberspacelinkdock.com/PDFs/The-Intermediate-or-Disembodied-State.pdf
Even differing with John MacArthur's eschatology in general, one would do well to receive this concise, biblical treatment (reposted from a Grace-To-You Q&A): Do Christians receive glorified bodies immediately after they die?: https://cyberspacelinkdock.com/glorified-bodies.html
Swerving from the Truth of the Resurrection of the Body -
https://gorphilus.substack.com/p/swerving-from-the-truth
It is all stupid speculating, Jesus said Himself, He does not the day or hour of his return. So, ANYONE predicting the future that lies before us, is stupid and self defeating. I think it would be much more useful to finish and come down with a definite conclusion to this question, oh learned ones!!!
How many angels can dance on the head of a needle? And a corollary, how many can squeeze through the eye of the same needle at a time...... After all, people have been debating all that kind of nonsense for hundreds of years, might as well resolve the dancing angels question......
Besides, all of these stupid debates are the result of people wanting their
"ears tickled".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_many_angels_can_dance_on_the_head_of_a_pin%3F
Wait -- if you admit that David Chilton was teaching Hyperpreterism, then what was Ken Talbot saying in 2011 when Talbot said his own "Realized Preterism" was like Chilton's preterism??? https://youtu.be/kfMnYMazvwg
Where were you when Talbot was allowing known hyperpreterist, Sam Frost develop student materials for his supposed "orthodox" seminary?
Where were you when Talbot & Whitefield Theological Seminary were going to allow known hyperpreterist, Larry Siegle get a Master of Div degree from WTS without any requirement to recan't hyperpreterism? https://unpreterist.blogspot.com/2011/06/whitefield-theological-seminary.html
The only thing your post above tells the reader is that Andrew Sandlin doesn't do careful work. He doesn't look into someone's beliefs before he has them write chapters in his book. It tells the reader you don't know what you are talking about when it comes to these issues.
Thank you for this. While my eschatology has changed from DeMar’s he’s played a huge role in helping me see the importance of eschatology and I love (loved?) his writings. It’s heart breaking to see the reaction to his dead friends reaching out in that letter.
Very well written. I remember when Hibbard went HP around 95 or 96. He pushed Russell's heretical book "The Parousia". Now you can get a copy at AV with a foreword by Hibbard. Nothing has changed. What's worse is to see Gary squirming and acting like a total weasel. The man has helped so many over the years and now he is reducing himself to a morsel of bread before our eyes. So sad.
BTW third paragraph from the end... "severer" might not be a word. I think it is "severe", "more severe" and "most severe".