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Dennis Darville's avatar

Andrew, once again, delivers on the promise to provide theologically deep, exegetically accurate, canonically broad, historically faithful, and culturally relevant material. This distinction between soteriology and gospel is essential to understand if we are ever to overcome the dualisms and reductionism(s) that currently plague the self-inflicted impotency of the church; this is especially damaging when we consider the failure of the “church scattered” Monday through Saturday. Moreover, discovering or re-discovering a biblically robust, wholistic understanding (i.e., “as far as the curse is found”), and leavening application of the ‘gospel’ to all of life cannot be—should not be—intimidated by the false charges and caricatures of triumphalism or over-realized eschatology. Which is what typically happens when men like Andrew speak or write from a cosmic perspective. In fact, this distinction aids us in overcoming what should be obvious to any Christian living in this hour: the church, knowingly or unknowingly, by reducing the gospel to personal salvation has succumbed to a under-realized, eschatology of Christ’s redeeming work. This understanding of the gospel broadens the scope of ‘church work,’ corrects our hermeneutical myopia, and intensifies our doxological expressions. May Christ Jesus increase Andrew’s tribe! So grateful for this man’s tireless labor in prayer, study, and writing. DD

P. Andrew Sandlin's avatar

Thank you so much, Dennis!

Michael Petek's avatar

The error in this is the proposition that the state has no power of legislation, but is bound to enforce only the judicial precepts of the Torah.

The correct statement of divine law is that the state has no jurisdiction to break the bond of marriage or permanently to set aside it's legal consequences, and no jurisdiction in matters of public worship. It may not enjoin insubordination to God, or homicide, or sexual immorality.

Otherwise, divine law is as handed down for the Jews by the beit din, and the state may freely legislate, subject to correction by the Church on appeal, judicial review, referral, or at her own first instance.

richard jones's avatar

Better re-read this Michael. Sandlin covered all your personal reservations and support of the state, AS IT'S COMMONLY THOUGHT OF TODAY, in the section on the ideal need for Christians to hold the positions of "civil" influence. [BTW the Christian state in its jurisdiction has no involvement in the matter or marriage or in its licensing. Only the church.] ALL of these civic positions being, as, I would like to think, or that might have been true in Geneva with Calvin. Granted that Andrew didn't go far enough, leaving out the basic that a "candidate" for civic office is not even eligible for consideration unless HE (not her) is first and foremost a bona fide member of the bona fide "protestant" body of Christ. The current RC pope well-representing my caveat here in that regard.

Michael Petek's avatar

The Church has jurisdiction for the marriages of the baptised, and the State has it for the marriages of everyone else.

But the Church has jurisdiction in judicial review on a claim that the State has exceeded the limits of its jurisdiction.

richard jones's avatar

For non-Christians who want to legally "hook up" "in Geneva," they're on their own. The only marriage the Creator recognizes is His to define. That non-Christians might "marry" without "state sanction," carries with it what consequences? That they and/or their children might lose out on "state benefits?" What are those in the better tomorrow here on earth? Plato's state is a fiction made up of fallen sinners untempered by Xity's moral standards. Over time and ideally in a more sane world, the societal lauded standards of a true, respected, responsible, pro-family (the atoms of the molecules of culture) marriage environment will help encourage pagans to hear and respond to Christ and to the salvation message.

Martin Flynn's avatar

P Andrew Sandlin’s articles are not inspirational.

A quasi intellectual script which drives down Christian marriage ‘It’s a creation all institution , not a Christian Institution.

Mr Sandlin , the readers thirst for the clear Christian message. Your writings seem to diminish Christian marriage by cotradicting the traditional teaching.

Marriage is between one man and one woman ! How clear is that ? All else is sin. How clear is this ?

Intellectual pride clouds your thinking. Remember : 1 man 1 woman , exclusive love for one another.

Fidelity. Procreation if you are blessed with a family.

Foxtrot93's avatar

I think you misunderstand Rev. Sandlin for he has never argued against traditional marriage.

Martin Ed's avatar

So are you pre-mill?

Kathleen Nealis's avatar

I have no problem with the words in red. Jesus constantly affirms the validity of the entire Bible, and specifically mentions the Torah. He mentions the old testament ("Words of the prophets" and the "psalms" or "writings") and states that all will come to pass that the OT said would pass, specifically the prophecies concerning Jesus himself.

Christians have to remember that the OT IS the Torah. The only difference is in how the "books" are grouped. The Torah is in more chronological order, and the number of books is different, but they are the EXACT SAME BOOKS.

I agree with the author, that Jesus states he came to FULFULL the OT and that all it's messages are valid even today.

I personally like having the words of Jesus in red. I don't think this caused any apostasy, that would have happened anyway, as the Bible predicted.

Michael Petek's avatar

Strictly speaking, it is the Five Books of Moses which are the written Torah (torah shebikhtav). Other parts of the OT may, on a case by case basis, be evidence of law.

richard jones's avatar

I agree with the full conclusion that -- "muddying and muddling church and kingdom demotes each, [rj - confuses/distracts both] --- et al." In addition, the church has its spiritual/administrative rules and tasks and must be overseen by a community's wise, theonomic, Christian elders. The state (kingdom) likewise has its civic/political/magisterial rules and tasks. All necessarily overseen and administered by the same grade of WTC elders. As later in Geneva. The two agencies however are totally separate, "walled apart." Except that (1) that the church collectively cannot be prohibited from INFLUENCING (via indirect persuasion) the thinking of the magistrates. In fact it must do exactly that. For each magistrate so to speak, prior to holding office and during. But (2) the magistrates are by law not allowed to "legally" (with force or persuasion) influence or to act on or against His church. Including meddling in such as marriage.

Mark Dewey's avatar

A most hearty, "Amen!"

ron therrien's avatar

these young upstarts are vilified because they are exposing the control Jewish elites are controlling many things in the US, including the President (his biggest donors are Jewish elites, as do others controlling the porn industry, yet the biggest problem is how they get us to support Israel with billions while this nations flounders in ridiculus debt, thats why the America first agenda is a hot topic today. Its one thing to support an ally but not at our expense while they grow wealthier and we grow poorer and weaker. Many are waking up to the absurdities going on while most Christians are lost in the falsehood of Judeo Christianity. Which it is in itself a falsehood. Jesus made it clear the kingdom taken from youJews who are fruitless and given to apeople bearing fruit. The Jews of Rom 9& 11 are the remant of Jews brought into the covenant in the first century. Theres nothing else in the NT about them becoming a nation, thats referring to the Jews in the OT returning to the land from captivity. As Isa 2 says one day all nations will flow to house of the Lord by end of church age.

Mike Whitrow's avatar

Thank you Andrew,

Your clarity is refreshing! I'm encouraged to read your summary that Bible-Way-ism is our pathway as believers. All of Christ for All of Life is the commitment of only a very tiny minority of Christians in Australia - so it can be lonely!

Jerry's avatar

I find it ironic that you spoke on this topic with Doug Wilson as one of the other speakers. He is the most prominent proponent of this false manliness that you correctly exhort us to reject.

Jill's avatar

Praying for your son … sounds like a horrible condition … I don’t usually do this but in addition to prayers I would investigate lifewave patches … no medicine involved … they stimulate the bodies own stem cell production to repair sites in the body … please do look into it , the recoveries of people with odd or severe illness are amazing.

Ted R. Weiland's avatar

Yes, indeed!

And the 18th-century Enlightenment culture is what wagged the political dog that created the the biblically egregious Constitutional Republic born of the biblically seditious Constitution.

And that same cultural approach continues to be fostered to this day with those who promote the same and who are, consequently, contributing to the "dog" responsible for America's suicidal trek to the precipice of moral depravity and destruction.

"...On February 27, 2009, James Dobson conceded that we have lost the culture wars. This is the consequence of Christians having spent the last two centuries lopping at the rotten branches of our culture’s corrupt tree while watering and fertilizing its roots [that is, the biblically seditious Constitution].

'There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil to one who is striking at the root.' (Henry David Thoreau)

"We should lop away at the tree’s corrupt branches (infanticide, sodomy, the economy, etc.). However, until the root of these problems is biblically addressed, we will never shut down the infanticide mills, we will never defeat the sodomites, and we will never fix the economy. In short, we will never win the culture wars. This issue is more than important for anyone concerned about God, our nation, and the future of our posterity, it’s the cutting- edge issue of our day...."

For more, see our Featured Article "Five Reasons the Constitution is Our Cutting-Edge Issue" at the top of our home page at https://www.bibleversusconstitution.org/

Find out how much you really know about the Constitution as compared to the Bible. Take our 10-question Constitution Survey in the sidebar and receive a free copy of the 85-page "Primer" of "BL vs. USC."

Ted R. Weiland's avatar

There are a plethora of passages (Exodus 1, Judges 6, Acts 4 & 5, 17:6-7, etc.) that dictate Christians reject any government mandate requiring them to disobey their Lord and King. Romans 13 is not one of them.

Romans 13:1-7 has absolutely nothing to do with secular civil government. Rather everything therein depicts a biblical civil government, making it our commission for dominion over government and society.

The one word "continually" or "devoted" (depending upon your Bible version) in Verse 6 (amplifying Verses 3 & 4) alone proves the point. And it's just one of ten contextual reasons proving the same thing.

Unless someone's prepared to claim the Roman Empire (one of the most notorious for murdering Christians) was a government that *continually* blessed Christians and terrorized/punished the wicked, they best rethink their theology regarding this extremely important passage of Scripture.

See free online book "The Romans 13 Template for Biblical Dominion: Ten Reasons Why Romans 13 is Not About Secular Government" at https://www.bibleversusconstitution.org/Romans13/Romans13-contents.html

Ted R. Weiland's avatar

Andrew Sandlin: "It’s time for all conservatives and other Christians to abandon their Leftist-aping love affair with the state and its coerciveness and return to a sound conservative Christian worldview."

Amen!

The State, meaning the biblically abominable Constitutional Republic born of the biblically seditious Constitution.

If ever there were a love affair with the state, it's that of the Christians who have been hoodwinked into believing the secular non-Christian government created by the framers is somehow equivalent with advancing our King's Kingdom here on earth *as it is in heaven."

There is nowhere in heaven where Yahweh isn't Sovereign and nowhere in heaven where His morality (as codified in His moral law here on earth) isn't supreme. DO YOU REALLY THINK that promoting the biblically abominable Constitutional Republic accomplishes this Kingdom commission???

The constitutional framers' sins were of both commission and omission. The framers’ sins of commission are evidenced in that there’s hardly an Article or Amendment in the Constitution that’s not antithetical, if not seditious, to Yahweh’s sovereignty and morality.

Their sins of commission aside, the framers’ sins of omission—that is, their failure to establish government and society based upon Yahweh’s commandments, statutes, and judgments—alone sent America to the precipice of moral depravity and destruction she presently teeters on.

Ask the millions of infants slaughtered in their mothers’ wombs if the constitutional framers’ failure to establish government on Exodus 21:22-23 and Deuteronomy 27:25 didn’t lead to their annihilation?

There’s not one national problem in America today—criminal civil "leaders," government-financed in utero infanticide, sodomite “marriages,” Synagogues, Mosques, and Temples devoted to false gods dotting America’s landscape, international entanglements, America’s crumbling economy, runaway debt, and taxes on nearly everything, etc.—that cannot be traced back to the framers’ sins of omission.

"For my people have committed two evils; they have forsaken me the fountain of living waters, and hewed them out cisterns, broken cisterns, that can hold no water." (Jeremiah 2:13)

For evidence that the Constitution is biblically seditious, see free online book "Bible Law vs. the United States Constitution: The Christian Perspective," in which every Article and Amendment is examined by the Bible, at https://www.bibleversusconstitution.org/BlvcOnline/blvc-index.html

Find out how much you really know about the Constitution as compared to the Bible. Take our 10-question Constitution Survey in the sidebar and receive a free copy of the 85-page "Primer" of "BL vs. USC."

Ted R. Weiland's avatar

The only presidential election I ever participated in was for Reagan, but I've since repented of having done so, now understanding that I was complicit in everything biblically abominable (including his allegiance to the biblically seditious Constitution) that he was party to while in office:

"...Voters become accomplices to the crimes of those they elect. Paul warned Timothy of one of the consequences of impulsive appointments:

'Do not lay hands upon anyone too hastily [in America's case, unbiblically vote for] and thus share responsibility for the sins of others; keep yourself free from sin.' (1 Timothy 5:22, NASB)

"Two verses later, Paul warned that “the sins of some men are quite evident, going before them to judgment; for others, their sins follow after.” Because no man can look into the heart of another man, voters often do not know what sins they are participating in until after the election – often long after the election. For example, on August 4, 2010, Chief U.S. District Judge Vaughn R. Walker overturned California’s Proposition 8, known as “California’s Marriage Protection Act,” (which declares that “only marriage between a man and a woman is valid or recognized in California”), paving the way for sodomites like himself to “marry” one another. Vaughn was appointed to the bench in 1989 by President George H.W. Bush. Christians who helped elect the “conservative” Bush into office are therefore accomplices to this wickedness...."

For more, see Chapter 5 "Article 2: Executive Usurpation" of free online book "Bible Law vs. the United States Constitution: The Christian Perspective" at https://www.bibleversusconstitution.org/BlvcOnline/blvc-index.html

Be sure to read the entire section under the heading "Elections."

See also blog article "Constitutional Elections: Dining at the 'Devil's Table'" at https://www.constitutionmythbusters.org/constitutional-elections-dining-at-the-devils-table/

Alex's avatar

Andrew, I appreciate your article. Quick question, although these men you refer to in this article may be over-emphasizing weightlifting, do you believe taking care of your body is in alignment with piety?